Curse

Catrion-Leyt · Dec 30, 2007, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Seifus Halbred

How are you guys downloading PvX builds atm? It hasn't been working for the last week now, almost 2 weeks i believe.

Are you talking about the template code? I just copy and paste the code they have there.

As for me using those builds...Only for my heroes. I have enough trouble making a build for myself, so I just look up some there for my heroes. I feel a lot better making my own build, too, especially when it's pretty good.

What if... · Dec 30, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

In my opinion, the most effective builds, for a certain job appear to use around 80% of the same skill bar. Some skills just won't get used because they're awful while others are everywhere because they are comparatively very useful. And when all your bars are decided by their usefulness (they way they should be chose IMO) they will start looking very similar.

Example: A necromancer looking to shut down melee will probably want something to slow down an attacker, and then something to mess with hit rates so that they can shutdown two attackers with the different skill combos. Well, in terms of melee shutdown, the curses domain provides the most options; so they will search within that line first to chose skills. For attack rate debuffs, the all around best skill is faintheartedness which has a shorter duration than Shadow of Fear and Meekness but has a shorter cast time which makes it harder to shut down; it doesn't have the range problem of Meekness and has a nice degen effect to add damage to the picture. To mess with an attacker's hit rate, Price of Failure and Reckless Haste are the strongest skill options in the curses line, and they work well together. Grab a useful cover hex: Parasitic Bond and Defile Defenses come to mind; and chose a useful elite: Spiteful Spirit for arenas and more target control, corrupt enchantment for enchantment removal, or reaper's mark for degen and energy gain. Now add some utility skills: enchantment removal if you don't already have it, glyph of lesser energy or signet of lost souls to handle the energy costs and, of course, your resurrection signet, and you're now left with one skill to play around with (or no skills if you took Rend Enchantment and Glyph of Lesser or SoLS). We recognize this as a standard curses N/any necro. The E/any BSurge is the same. It may have more room for utility and extra stuff, the primary skills which identify it are always the same.

What I'm trying to say is people don't need guild wiki to string together strong skill combos and come up with a lot of the "cookie cutter" builds we see now. Many of them are obvious. The problem, if you can call it that, is people "copying" these builds and using them without knowing how the build works and the purpose of each individual skill. Most of the time these players' lack of skill will kill them in due time. I do know that this isn't always the case though. Until recently, a decent player stuck by themselves without any disruption or defensive skills was basically doomed against any SP sin who could press buttons in a correct order, though that occurrence is a function of class or skill imbalance moreso than PvXwiki.

On the flip side, though I see he PvXwiki templates as an effective learning aid to help new players figure out how to make their own builds as they figure out why certain skills are useful in certain roles. I think most of us would agree that the early learning curve for players new to pvp has been lowered as the game has aged and that isn't a bad thing. Besides, most of the people I see complaining about PvXwiki are players who haven't taken the time to re-examine their own skill bars and therefore deserve to lose to stronger skill bars on the merits of that alone.

Meh. Just my two cents.

jaeharys targaryen · Dec 30, 2007, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets

PvX is bad. I don't see how anyone can argue against that. Every build is either total shit thats worse than what a monkey could come up with or copied off obs. Not to mention alot of the obs ones aren't accurate.

Thats sweeping and inaccurate and you know it.

Anyone with half a brain or who's played pvp for more than a week can separate out the crap, and since when is copying a build off obs particularly bad?

jaeharys targaryen · Dec 30, 2007, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by akurun

And, then, if they vote votes that are wrong, we remove them.

edru is right. and as for the users, we make sure they dont feel welcome. We are confronted on pvx every day by arrogant IP's and redlinkers and occasional r5 wisdom titles who feel they need to make their erroneous opinions known. It doesnt mean we listen to them.

I could come up in 5 seconds a list of pvx usernames that know what they're doing, in 10 more seconds a list of people who also have craplaods of experience. Define pvx by them, not by the random shit you see.

akurun · Dec 30, 2007, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaeharys targaryen

edru is right. and as for the users, we make sure they dont feel welcome. We are confronted on pvx every day by arrogant IP's and redlinkers and occasional r5 wisdom titles who feel they need to make their erroneous opinions known. It doesnt mean we listen to them.

We don't go out of our way to make the noobs feel unwelcome. We just explain to them why they're wrong. Not our fault they have a fortunate tendency to ragequit. =P

Stormlord Alex · Dec 30, 2007, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLordOfBlah

prty shure everyone runs WoH in GVG..

I use wiki builds.
I dont think anyone who uses the builds are noobs, because the real deciding factor for skill level is if you can play the bar worth a damn.

As for bitching about bad builds on there, MOST people can easily distinguish a bad bar from a good one.

Back when I posted that, WoH was shit, and the WoH healer was a bad healing bar - iirc, it even had a sup rune and Breeze.

The current WoH hybrids are a whole new beast and are actually good.

Anyho, as for PvX... Idiots are allowed to voice their 'opinions', simply.
And with a resource like that, Joe-Wammo and AB Narutard are exactly the kind of people you don't want contributing. Call me an elitist dick or whatever, but I don't particularly want scrubs and retards and delicate unique snowflakes suggesting what's 'good' when they don't even know that Frenzy iz gud.

Edru, I wish you the best of luck. Brutal Naziism is the way forward, imo.

jaeharys targaryen · Dec 30, 2007, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by akurun

We don't go out of our way to make the noobs feel unwelcome. We just explain to them why they're wrong. Not our fault they have a fortunate tendency to ragequit. =P

well, me and skafag certainly make them feel unwelcome =)
well, occasionally
theres a difference between newb and noob though, and we are always mindful of that.

jaeharys targaryen · Dec 30, 2007, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Edru, I wish you the best of luck. Brutal Naziism is the way forward, imo.

But thats what WE HAVE.
We remove votes, we explain politely, impolitely, and rudely that they suck, and we've never came close to letting joe wammo and ab narutard actually having a successful build(cept for in the "other" sectin..when no one notices its there so it falls to random lurkers to vote it down)

Theres maybe 3 people who had shit ideas and stuck around to say the same thing constantly.
they eventually also raged

and btw, edru, are we gonna eventually passn PvX:TARD? or w/e its called, the pvx policy that allows you to be banned for faggotry/idiocy/total assholeossity.

akurun · Dec 30, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Anyho, as for PvX... Idiots are allowed to voice their 'opinions', simply.
And with a resource like that, Joe-Wammo and AB Narutard are exactly the kind of people you don't want contributing. Call me an elitist dick or whatever, but I don't particularly want scrubs and retards and delicate unique snowflakes suggesting what's 'good' when they don't even know that Frenzy iz gud.

Most of those people get all of their votes removed. Except perhaps on things that don't matter, like PvE, AB, RA, CM, etc. And, with Shireen no longer active, a lot of them tend to get driven away or ragequit.

Yeah, we aren't elitist enough, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaeharys targaryen

and btw, edru, are we gonna eventually passn PvX:TARD? or w/e its called, the pvx policy that allows you to be banned for faggotry/idiocy/total assholeossity.

PvXwiki

on't be a dick? Why? We already ban people who violate it. No need to actually have a policy saying "Don't be a dick."

Chicken Ftw · Dec 30, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12

+1 vote for PvX:TARD or w/e

and more naziism

Stormlord Alex · Dec 30, 2007, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by akurun

Most of those people get all of their votes removed. Except perhaps on things that don't matter, like PvE, AB, RA, CM, etc. And, with Shireen no longer active, a lot of them tend to get driven away or ragequit.

Yeah, we aren't elitist enough, though.

PvXwiki

on't be a dick? Why? We already ban people who violate it. No need to actually have a policy saying "Don't be a dick."

Ahh, good stuff, good stuff.

Not been on in a wee while

farkas · Dec 30, 2007, 04:59 AM // 04:59

I do. I copy skill sets entirely or simply read up on builds to give me ideas for skill sets.

It gave me ideas for fun things to try out.

But it also reminds me how much more fun a 7 hero limit would be with all the possibilities of 64 skills vs 32

Shayne Hawke · Dec 30, 2007, 06:13 AM // 06:13

I use it for some of my heroes, and just about all of my PvP builds. The PvE build I run on my Ranger has been modified over time from an interrupt build somewhat like one that may have been found on there, but I've made it my own enough that I don't think it's the same kind of build.

I do have a few PvP builds that I've modified more to my playing style than what was on there, but the core ideas came from PvX.

Sir Seifus Halbred · Dec 30, 2007, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catrion-Leyt

Are you talking about the template code? I just copy and paste the code they have there.

Yeah, if you click the download button it doesn't work. It has been like this for about 2 weeks now. It is still an issue.

genofreek · Dec 30, 2007, 06:31 AM // 06:31

I've browsed the wiki builds, gotten a few ideas for making more efficient builds, but I don't think I have any direct copy/paste jobs in anyone's skillbar.

My personal builds aren't too great, but that's okay.

Alex Morningstar · Dec 30, 2007, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Research only

Oro Mana · Dec 30, 2007, 06:36 AM // 06:36

C. and B. I mostly use the cookie cutters just for farming but sometimes I look at a build and change it around a bit to make my own.

Ears of the Woods · Dec 30, 2007, 10:14 AM // 10:14

PvX is great for making 7 billion character talk pages

Lady Raenef · Dec 30, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

PvE, I look.
Heroes, no.
PvP, no.

artay · Dec 30, 2007, 10:23 AM // 10:23

I've never, Often browsed through them, never really directly copied from them, but for getting an idea of how things work for a particular class or area I haven't tried yet.

But I have used one farming build from guru, the glacial stone one, but then I did change it a bit.